Hello All....
I joined this forum to understand more about HMG and recently have used the forum for help to migrate some old clip applications to Harbour.
Everyone's help was/is perfect, and so much appreciated....
Everything has worked perfectly, and that's why I'm having a hard time understanding why there are not more of us out there ??
I have tried to explain myself before.. My applications are in large companies. The largest 50.. They use CHESS.. SAP,,, REMEDY,,, etc ..
BUT,, they can't run their business without my systems processing the data first and then handing it over to their enterprise "system" to process furthur..
(record by record data manipulation and sorting they can't duplicate)
Trust me,, they have tried to replace me ! Still are..... but they can't do it with their language,,,(ABAP,,, ARS)... not even close.....
I'm right here, right now doing this... and I don't know what else I could possibly use that would do the job my software is doing.
It used to be Clipper.... Today,, it's Harbour .....
For me, It seems the usage level of Harbour and HMG for that matter is low.
It would seem to me that it would be much higher... and that's why I'm having a hard time understanding.....
Has everyone given up on power programming ??
I make my living with it....
Thanks
Bill
I'm having a hard time understanding
Moderator: Rathinagiri
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dhaine_adp
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:22 pm
- Location: Manila, Philippines
Re: I'm having a hard time understanding
Hi,
First and foremost, when CA abandon Clipper in favor of CA-VO which never gained the popularity of Clipper, then somewhere comes along Alaska Software apparently to pick-up where Clipper has left off but it failed to capture the heart of Clipper's Application Developers and Supporters. For so many years of using Clipper suddenly everyone has been abandoned. The death of Clipper sends almost everyone in chaos. But those few brave men who stands and fought manage to lit the lighthouse and keep them burning. So those who sees and saw the light has been saved and brought to Harbour.
Now, Harbour, xHarbour, HMG/HMGEx, HwGUI, ooHG, HBQt, etc. are all open sources. We may not have the strong marketing-arm of a giant RDBMS and SQL software companies but I am sure that Open Source projects is more powerful than commercial software.
It is our desire or developers desire to share, their unselfish dedication of their own time, to help fellow developers and colleague. Those who can't contribute voluntarily comes and shows the way to the newbies for a jump-start.
Commercial application was developed by programmers who's after the wages he would received at the end of the month while Harbour/HMG/HMGEx are developed based on the contributor's desire to share. We never paid them but we owe and thank them big time or perhaps we can also call them heroes, because of them our application thrives and we thrives as well. The software grows, contributors comes and participate and they are happy with what they have done while the programmers who works on a project was under pressure to come-up with the enhancement of the product. That's two different mind setting and pressure.
Don't worry if we are small, even not so popular because we are not owned by a company because we are a company of open source users, supporters and contributors alike and bounded by a common desire, our love and fashion of Clipper for which everyone of us speaks.
No one markets Harbour, HMG or HMGExtended because most of Clipper programmers shifted to another programming language or abandoned programming at all. But all our stories are related or may be the same, "we all searched and found the lighthouse in Harbour when the Clipper Captain abandoned ship ahead of everyone". We are saved and thriving with language that we have loved.
Regards,
Danny
First and foremost, when CA abandon Clipper in favor of CA-VO which never gained the popularity of Clipper, then somewhere comes along Alaska Software apparently to pick-up where Clipper has left off but it failed to capture the heart of Clipper's Application Developers and Supporters. For so many years of using Clipper suddenly everyone has been abandoned. The death of Clipper sends almost everyone in chaos. But those few brave men who stands and fought manage to lit the lighthouse and keep them burning. So those who sees and saw the light has been saved and brought to Harbour.
Now, Harbour, xHarbour, HMG/HMGEx, HwGUI, ooHG, HBQt, etc. are all open sources. We may not have the strong marketing-arm of a giant RDBMS and SQL software companies but I am sure that Open Source projects is more powerful than commercial software.
It is our desire or developers desire to share, their unselfish dedication of their own time, to help fellow developers and colleague. Those who can't contribute voluntarily comes and shows the way to the newbies for a jump-start.
Commercial application was developed by programmers who's after the wages he would received at the end of the month while Harbour/HMG/HMGEx are developed based on the contributor's desire to share. We never paid them but we owe and thank them big time or perhaps we can also call them heroes, because of them our application thrives and we thrives as well. The software grows, contributors comes and participate and they are happy with what they have done while the programmers who works on a project was under pressure to come-up with the enhancement of the product. That's two different mind setting and pressure.
Don't worry if we are small, even not so popular because we are not owned by a company because we are a company of open source users, supporters and contributors alike and bounded by a common desire, our love and fashion of Clipper for which everyone of us speaks.
No one markets Harbour, HMG or HMGExtended because most of Clipper programmers shifted to another programming language or abandoned programming at all. But all our stories are related or may be the same, "we all searched and found the lighthouse in Harbour when the Clipper Captain abandoned ship ahead of everyone". We are saved and thriving with language that we have loved.
Regards,
Danny
Regards,
Danny
Manila, Philippines
Danny
Manila, Philippines
-
esgici
- Posts: 4543
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Re: I'm having a hard time understanding
Thank you very much Danny,
good saying, good explanation
In short, all we are here because of that: we love Clipper, we love open source and we love heroes fighting against titans
Happy HMG'ing
good saying, good explanation
In short, all we are here because of that: we love Clipper, we love open source and we love heroes fighting against titans
Happy HMG'ing
Viva INTERNATIONAL HMG
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Rathinagiri
- Posts: 5482
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Re: I'm having a hard time understanding
Why HMG is not that much popular as it should be?
1. No new comers. Clipper programmers are IMHO minimum 30 to 40 or even 40+ in age. No school/college teaches Clipper as a language. Comfort level of clipper is not felt by the youngsters.
2. Ocean of new languages available in both open source and commercial.
3. People think that if it is free then it is not worth it.
4. We don't have time and money to advertise ourselves. We have other things to do. ie., develop
There are numerous points like this.
What we can do? We can start with our children. I educate my daughter of 13 to write small programs in HMG. I educate my clients by providing the source code of the whole project and HMG to study and improve themselves. Believe it, customer satisfaction spreads.
1. No new comers. Clipper programmers are IMHO minimum 30 to 40 or even 40+ in age. No school/college teaches Clipper as a language. Comfort level of clipper is not felt by the youngsters.
2. Ocean of new languages available in both open source and commercial.
3. People think that if it is free then it is not worth it.
4. We don't have time and money to advertise ourselves. We have other things to do. ie., develop
There are numerous points like this.
What we can do? We can start with our children. I educate my daughter of 13 to write small programs in HMG. I educate my clients by providing the source code of the whole project and HMG to study and improve themselves. Believe it, customer satisfaction spreads.
East or West HMG is the Best.
South or North HMG is worth.
...the possibilities are endless.
South or North HMG is worth.
...the possibilities are endless.
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apais
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- Location: uruguay
- Contact:
Re: I'm having a hard time understanding
See it from a young 20+ programmer POV
1) They've only teached .NET and JAVA to him/her on school.
2) Most of then are directed to the WEB programming so they go for javascript and php
3) Those who do eletronics and hardrware programming go to learn C.
4) All the rest are choosing among dynamic languajes: xbase ( really none because lack of publicity ), python ( really hot on mags ), ruby and a plethory of dynamic languajes.
So, why is python winning this race ?
a) python is backed with big money from enterprises.
b) python has HUGE amunt of documentation, books and examples over there.
c) python is teached on universities to math students, reserchers and all non programming careers
d) python comnes standard installed on ALL linux machines.
e) python is nice and very similar in syntax to xbase but with some more powerfull constructs
f) something I'm sure I forgot....
Regards
Angel Pais
1) They've only teached .NET and JAVA to him/her on school.
2) Most of then are directed to the WEB programming so they go for javascript and php
3) Those who do eletronics and hardrware programming go to learn C.
4) All the rest are choosing among dynamic languajes: xbase ( really none because lack of publicity ), python ( really hot on mags ), ruby and a plethory of dynamic languajes.
So, why is python winning this race ?
a) python is backed with big money from enterprises.
b) python has HUGE amunt of documentation, books and examples over there.
c) python is teached on universities to math students, reserchers and all non programming careers
d) python comnes standard installed on ALL linux machines.
e) python is nice and very similar in syntax to xbase but with some more powerfull constructs
f) something I'm sure I forgot....
Regards
Angel Pais
Angel Pais
Web Apps consultant/architect/developer.
Web Apps consultant/architect/developer.
Re: I'm having a hard time understanding
Thank You for the replies and thoughts.
As in all of your comments,,
I'm certainly one who has benefited from other's hard work. I am very humbled by this situation.
I don't know a lot right now at all,, just barely enough to make my old programs go ! I will forever thank all of you who have helped me, and replied to my posts.
As I learn more, I will for sure do my part to help others who might have found themselves in my situation...
I am truly a member here, and thanks for having me and helping as you have.
Bill
As in all of your comments,,
I'm certainly one who has benefited from other's hard work. I am very humbled by this situation.
I don't know a lot right now at all,, just barely enough to make my old programs go ! I will forever thank all of you who have helped me, and replied to my posts.
As I learn more, I will for sure do my part to help others who might have found themselves in my situation...
I am truly a member here, and thanks for having me and helping as you have.
Bill