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HMG And The Web...

Hi Again,

This could be the main and maybe the only relevant concern of HMG programmers right now.

Marc Anderssen predicted in 1996 that the client operating systems could become irrelevant.

Well... the future is here.

From a couple of years (specially the last one) the cheap Android tablets and smartphones has flooded the market.

Desktop computers are dying and more and more users believes that any application should run inside a web browser... well... they are right

The things had changed very quickly. To create and maintain versions of an specific application for Android, IOS, Linux and Windows does not appears to be reasonable anymore.

The only reasonable solution is to make our applications to run in a web browser.

When I say a web browser, I mean any standard web browser (without the need of esoteric plugins).

There is some promising technologies related with HTML5 like websockets, local databases, canvas, etc.

There is a little experiment called 'harbour websocket' that, basically allows us to use a web browser as our console mode 'terminal' across a network.

A more advanced solution allowing to do the same with Harbour GUI applications, could be wonderful for us, but (AFAIK) it does not exists and isn't being developed right now.

Since I needed a quick solution for the problem, I've researched (googled ) a little and created a test environment that worked very well and allow me to have all my HMG apps running in a web browser.

Maybe many of you already know this solution, but, perhaps, it could be helpful for someone.

1. Download and install VirtualBox (https://www.virtualbox.org/).

2. Create a new virtual machine from a Windows XP CD or ISO.

3. Once the virtual XP machine is working, install ThinVnc on it (http://thinvnc.sourceforge.net/).. ThinVnc is a remote desktop server that allows you to use any HTML5 enabled browser as client.

4. You must reconfigure your network for XP virtual machine (bridge adapter/allow all) to make it work.

5. Install the desired HMG application on the virtual XP and you simply could access from any machine on your network, or outside it, doing the usual required things (forward ports, dynamic IP service setup, etc.).

6. It works like a charm from any device having an HTML5 enabled browser, and while we wait for Harbour developers for a Harbour native solution, we can satisfy our customers.

I hope this be useful and, of course, if someone has a better solution, please, post it!

Very useful tip Roberto.

If the newer versions of Windows are tablet based and touch sensitive, won't they be backward compatible?

Window 8 In arm version in incompatible with all desktop application and allow only metro application
called Windows RT, also adds support for the ARM processor
Thingvnc can be a solution thaat allow use it also if seem be not cheaph

This is my info about websocket HTML 5
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agc ... hvh7c/edit

This regarding How compile harbour for android from windows
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GC1 ... dwpv9lmixe

rathinagiri wrote:Very useful tip Roberto.

If the newer versions of Windows are tablet based and touch sensitive, won't they be backward compatible?

As Massimo points, there will be two versions of Windows 8, one for ARM processors (the same that most tablets and smartphones uses) and other for Intel processors.

Only the Intel version will be backwards compatible.

But, will be difficult to rely on this Windows version, because it is a very expensive one.

According prices here, you can get an Android tablet for about USD 100, but, the cheaper Windows 7 netbook is about USD 400 (and Windows 7 tablets prices are prohibitive). I guess that this scenario will remain when Windows 8 arrive.

But there is more problems, most Android/IOS tablets has a battery life of 8/10 hours and their Windows 7 counterparts about the half. This is because current Intel technology is power hungry compared with ARM.

It is expected that a new generation of (battery friendly) Intel Atom processors will be ready for Windows 8 tablets. The time will give us an answer about that, but the fact that Microsoft decided to create an alternate Windows 8 version for ARM processors, appears to indicate that the things will be difficult for Intel.

Finally, if we rely only on Windows 8 Intel version, we are saying a big NO to all of the current mobile devices (tablets and phones).

All the mobile devices that are replacing the Windows+Intel PC's have one thing in common: All of them has HTML5 web browsers.

In the case I have the time and knowledge to do that, all my efforts should be focused on an HTML5 solution for HMG, but I haven't (none of both).

As I've said in the previous message, I hope that Harbour developers give a solution soon.

mbelgrano wrote:Window 8 In arm version in incompatible with all desktop application and allow only metro application
called Windows RT, also adds support for the ARM processor
Thingvnc can be a solution thaat allow use it also if seem be not cheaph

This is my info about websocket HTML 5
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agc ... hvh7c/edit

This regarding How compile harbour for android from windows
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GC1 ... dwpv9lmixe

Sadly the project appears to be not completed and abandoned (no activity in five months).

Regarding ThinVnc, according Sourceforge page, it uses GPL license, so it should be ok for an in-house development.

I do agree that HTML would be the future.

I remember about the HMGScript version.

I am sure now with HTML5 + JavaScript + PHP we can try again. If you can guide many will join hands.

rathinagiri wrote:I do agree that HTML would be the future.

I remember about the HMGScript version.

I am sure now with HTML5 + JavaScript + PHP we can try again. If you can guide many will join hands.

Some new things happened since the original HMGSCRIPT idea, basically, HTML5 new features like websockets.

Websockets is extremely important for us, since you can connect to the server from a Javascript application running on your client browser and keep the connection (no need for page reloads, sessions, cookies, etc.). Using websockets we can write our applications with the *right* intuitive logic.

You can even omit the HTML tags and use Javascript only (you can create form controls directrly from Javascript) to make it easier and intuitive.

So, if I had enough time, I would redesign HMGSCRIPT to be less complex, reducing it to a Javascript library, intended to program the user interface of web applications in a HMG style.

That is not a big problem, even, part of the HMGSCRIPT code could be reused.

The translation from xBase to javaScript could be an independent project. Decoupling the two goals, the HMG GUI for Javascript library could advance faster.

Just some random ideas...

Your words give much hope in this area Roberto.