A mandatory statement

[pctoledo]

Dear Toledo, could you give us your opinion about my service as moderator in your forum.

Pablo was the most active forum moderator that the Clipper On Line ever had, their moderations were always fair and based on forum rules. And out of moderation, their participation also always been perfect, in recent years he was one of the members who helped more friends here on the forum Clipper On Line, just look at your message history.
The Pablo is an person extremely altruistic, who loves to help friends and here on the forum Clipper On Line he is the greatest spreader of HMG.

The initial cause of this whole discussion is another, I think it has nothing to do with the messages that are posted in English, Spanish or any other language, but it all started because of this comment:

Hello Mr. Rathinagiri

I didn't know that you speak Portuguese, really bravo !

I know that we have tooo many Portuguese speaking members / friends;

but for being aware such news, you need follow this blog, I think.

In other hand, IMO nobody may have any difficulty to installing HMG and HMG-IDE; "download and run setup" that is all; what benefit may be such video ?

I understand that for those who do not speak Portuguese these videos from our friend Daniel Crocciari can not help much, but that does not mean that the work that Daniel has been developing with the video and particularly the blog it is worthless. On the contrary, here in Brazil there is a large number of Clipper / Harbour users who have not opted for a graphics library, then these videos will help many of these undecided users.

[Pablo César]

I invite to those having personal problems each other, to solve them via PM. If not, this thing could grow until the forum break.

Great, for me is that the way to solve personal matters. But I always tried to communicate with Esgici by MP and try to solve direct with him, but all seems that he preferred to discuss in public making troubles, saying not true about me, so this is personal but he always started the fight and I have my rights to defend me myself because his is using the public way.

So Esgici, if you have any respect for this community, please lets try to understand by MP and lets abandon all personal matters in public right now !

The basic rules on any discussion group on the Internet applies to all of this members (including moderators). We expect that moderators be better than us, serving as an example for the rest of us, trying to solve problems and keeping the group working.

Roberto, if the admin of forum (in this case Mr. Rathinagiri) gives me back the authority to moderate this kind of messages: remove it when is personal and when the message has part technical and part offensive contents then I would extract the offensive one by re-editing the user's message. As I've tried to do since at begining by faithfully and professionally ethical. But it seems this, was considerated by Esgici+Ronaldo+Rathinagiri as inappropriate. But why considered inappropriate ?
We have all messages re-edited by me are still existing in moderator section (not public) to prove my conduct. So, if I can not act when this happen in name of "FREE COMMUNICATION" then I have the right to defend me myself, because his is speaking about me, even I being moderator or not, because any defamation damages my image, my reputation is at stake. Don't you think so ?

I am also human, I can be wrong sometimes and I learn with all of you too (I am a user too).

I know is very sad to read all of this but this could happen with any moderator when rules are not difined.

Yourself have mentioned the freedom is sometimes compromised when there are no rules. I believe in this in the same way for everybody (including moderators).

[Pablo César]

Pablo was the most active forum moderator that the Clipper On Line ever had, their moderations were always fair and based on forum rules. And out of moderation, their participation also always been perfect, in recent years he was one of the members who helped more friends here on the forum Clipper On Line, just look at your message history.
The Pablo is an person extremely altruistic, who loves to help friends and here on the forum Clipper On Line he is the greatest spreader of HMG.

The true has come up to everyone here ! Coming from such an important person in our community through the forum where Clipper On Line, I met HMG, thank everything I learned there and grateful to his sincerity.

[Javier Tovar]

Hola a todos,

Yo desde que entre al foro, que ya cumplí un año, se viene arrastrando esta discusión, en verdad me fastidia este tipo de charla. Yo he notado que algunos de los antiguos integrantes del foro son muy especiales para contestar las dudas a los nuevos integrantes del foro, a lo mejor ya les fastidia contestar dudas que a lo mejor son las mismas para todos los que empiezan con HMG, no sé.

Pero hay algo que a muchos se nos olvida y es "Tener Humildad", para las cosas que aquí nos atañe y para todas las cosas de la vida.

Yo por ejemplo apenas publique un Post por cumplir 1000 post y lo han visitado 59 personas pero ni una ha contestado ni para bien ni para mal, la verdad esperaba que alguien me contestará..., pero creo que soy maduro y no por eso voy a dejar el foro.

A mi el idioma es como un lenguaje de programación, si no entiendo una procedimiento o una palabra, tengo que investigar por separado y conseguir mi entendimiento!

Creo que hay que ser humilde como novato y humilde como maestro! si todos nos vamos guiando con humildad y tener la idea de ayudar, no habrá nada que nos detenga en HMG y creceremos más rápidamente!

Todos queremos que HMG aumente en miembros y en programación, NO?. Entonces no lo matemos a HMG con este tipo de discusiones.

Un abrazo para todos y a TRABAJAR!

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Hello everyone,

Since I enter the forum, and turned one year, has been dragging this discursión, really annoys me this kind of talk. I have noticed that some of the older members of the forum are very special to answer questions to new members of the forum, maybe longer bothers them answer questions that maybe are the same for all starting with HMG not know .

But there is something that many of us forget it and "Have Humility" to the things that concerns us here and to all things in life.

For example, I just published a post to meet post 1000 and have visited 59 people but not one has answered for better or for worse, really hoping someone will answer me ... but I think I am mature and so will not leave the forum.

My language is like a programming language, but I mean a process or a word, I have to be investigated separately and get my mind!

I think we should be humble and lowly rookie as a teacher! if all we're leading with humility and help get the idea, there will be nothing to stop us in HMG and grow faster!

We all want that HMG increase in membership and programming, NO ?. So do not kill HMG with such discussions.

A hug for everyone and WORK!

[quartz565]

I’ve offered –because of my short knowledge of HMG- a lot less than I have gained in this forum. Despite the fact that I don’t know any of you in person, I feel you like my friends. The reason is that awesome people spend their time –even years sometimes (Roberto Lopez) - ( Rathinagiri, Dr. Claudio Soto, Esgici , Pablo César etc.) Just to share their knowledge without any obvious personal benefit.

I haven’t seen anyone, till now, acting arrogant, despite the fact that because of the huge offer they provide to this forum, they could have. It’s important that this hasn’t happened and it would be great not to happen in the future.

If anyone believes that, maybe, the fact that they offer more than they gain in this forum, gives them the right to act selfish and arrogant, or that the argument that “we are more, so we are right”, are completely wrong and that could actually lead to bad situations in this forum.

I totally agree with mruizcanete :
I don’t agree at all at the split of the forum into subforums, and I would suggest to not to happen. The reasons are: first, because the knowledge will be divided and second because this may cause future arguments about nationalities, languages etc. This could be the beginning of the end of the forum.
I suggest the forum stays the way it is. Whoever is able –even with a little trouble - to write anything in English, they should do so.

Whoever isn’t able or doesn’t have any friend that can translate their writings for them–like I do with the long texts- they should write in their own language so other people sharing common language would understand them better, these people could translate for the rest of us. The writer however, in my opinion, could show kindness and respect to the rules by translating their text in a translate site, such as chrome translate, and post it in both English and their language in the forum. That would be a gesture of kindness to all of the members of the forum.

In my opinion the important thing is HMG and its international character, and I think that’s the main point of what Esgici says and I do agree with him at that point - but not with the way he says it...

[Pablo César]

Nikos I thank for your interest and opinion too. But we can not write in English badly when we do not know the language. You Nikos live in Europe, there is so easy to speak English, here in latin America NOT. Why need to obbligue to people for writting in English when it be not good understanding. Why is needing to impose English as MANDATORY, why are we discussing this here in this post ?
Many say already when is in another language (not in Enlgish) not read and subsequently not answer it. This is the right of anyone. But if you are interested matter and you tried to use translators and is not clear the understanding, what do you do ? I tell you: ask for further information, that´s it !

You say for the forum health, long life for our community, but all of us we need to learn how to live with our differences and not disparage anyone for the simple fact of not speaking in English. This treatment demonstrates a great tendency to discrimination, cataloging people by their social class or knowledge in English. This should not be important. We are always talking about the technical language should be our common means of communication, that's important.

This forum is international ? So should contain people from different countries with many languages and without forcing to write (poorly written) in Enlgish.

Are you worry to see other language ? So you do not be obligged to answer it. If you want better results in your questioning: write clearly and with code examples. If not be attended: try English or native language. The important to get help, to get better understanding.

I agree with you, to NOT open any other subforum, but if you do not speak English, why should it be used in poorly written as it the same when we use Google translator and found funny a non sense intranslations. But important is to have patient and more respect for who are different.

No discrimination, please !!!

[quartz565]

Pablo it wasn't my intention to offend you in any way with my previous post. Also i am not discriminating against anyone.

Writing in their own native language is everyone's right, and should be allowed. I am just trying to make the following points here:

This is a forum, a community of lots of nationalities-ages etc. It is a place for people with common interests (in our case the HMG platform) to discuss,help,exchange information. In my opinion the ultimate goal of such a forum would be to share every bit of information to ALL of his users, to make that information accessible to everyone.

If a person doesn't want to make a little bit of effort to share his information or knowledge with all the users in here it makes the information show like it is a bit of a "private" thing. Sometimes i am feeling that i am stealing knowledge because a post for example was only in Spanish or Portuguese.It makes me feel like the post was intended to be something private , something that only specific users could have access to.

I am certainly not a fluent English speaker also, trust me your English are much better than mine. When i want to type a long post i write it in Greek and pass it over to my daughter who then translates it to English for me.

Yes by all means type it in Spanish if you are not good with English. But if you put a little effort before you post and do a quick google translate your post will be open to a lot more readers and people who would possibly answer. It takes the poster 1 min to do a google translate for his post while for me it could take me a lot longer to translate all the posts, then read them to find out if there is something there that interests me personally or if i could give my help to a fellow member of the forum. (I am typing "you" but it doesn't refer directly to you Pablo.It is just a way of saying)

Certainly when i read the post and find it out interesting afterwards i can search for more specific information by asking as you said above. But a little help from the poster would go a long way. No language should be restricted, no one should be discriminated. A forum with a fluid operation i think is a win for all of us.We all share at least 2 common interests, programming and HMG. We just need a little bit of good will from everyone to gain the most.

[Pablo César]

Ok Nikos, I accept your pont-of-view, because you are good in heart, without any prejudice.

I would like to every body could understand everything at any language, no problem for me. What it let me badly is when trying to push to, trying forcing to whos does not have conditions for that. For that reason there was for long long time the spanish section just for whos have this dificulties with languages. Even in that section seems some want to prohibit (some strange, but it already happen).

Another point is we have not right to disparage any work because is not in English. Right ?

So, we have to live with each other and if we do not understand something, just ask for further explanations.
Worth to write everything in English and not be attended too...

In my opinion, what is happining is a lack a bit of comprehension and often kindness (for both the questioner and to the reader).

[andyglezl]

No se si exista un documento donde se estipulen las reglas del foro para que se publicara.

* Si desea ayuda de más usuarios, publica tu mensaje en tu idioma natal y una traducción en ingles utilizando Google. (por ejemplo)

Una cosa que he notado al usar el traductor de Google es que, si no lo escribimos
nuestro mensaje con la puntuación adecuada ( , . ; : y letras acentuadas),
el traductor interpreta cosas diferentes, por lo tanto, es requerimiento hacerlo con la mejor redacción posible.
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Not if there is a document where the forum rules are stipulated to be published.

* If you want to help more users, post your message in your native language and English translation using Google. (for example)

One thing I've noticed when using the Google translator is that, if we do not write
our message with proper punctuation ( , ; : . and accented letters)
the translator interprets different things, therefore, it is requirement to do so with the best wording possible.

[Pablo César]

No se si exista un documento donde se estipulen las reglas del foro para que se publicara.

* Si desea ayuda de más usuarios, publica tu mensaje en tu idioma natal y una traducción en ingles utilizando Google. (por ejemplo)

Una cosa que he notado al usar el traductor de Google es que, si no lo escribimos
nuestro mensaje con la puntuación adecuada ( , . ; : y letras acentuadas),
el traductor interpreta cosas diferentes, por lo tanto, es requerimiento hacerlo con la mejor redacción posible.
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Not if there is a document where the forum rules are stipulated to be published.

* If you want to help more users, post your message in your native language and English translation using Google. (for example)

One thing I've noticed when using the Google translator is that, if we do not write
our message with proper punctuation ( , ; : . and accented letters)
the translator interprets different things, therefore, it is requirement to do so with the best wording possible.

Very good idea, but...

Rules in this forum, not exists (not published). But I agree when user make a question, to do it in both languages. The problem is when you answering and helping, then you will also need to write in two languages ? OMG it is so much...

Would it possible to write in one language for author good understanding ???

I am still preferring to get native language to be translated. Not translated one (made with web-translators).

I do not want offend anyone, but is hard to understand in incorret English... (not good understanding, when is simply thru web-translators)...