"Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Discuss anything else that does not suite other forums.

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Roberto Lopez
HMG Founder
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"Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by Roberto Lopez »

Hi All,

As you know, since almost a year ago, I have not available time, to be an 'exclusive' HMG developer anymore (I've was for ten years).

Despite that, my idea, is sharing with you, any new thing I've created while 'working' that could be useful for the HMG community.

One of such things, was hmgscript.

In the same way, as in 2002, I've was sure, that, an easy to use Harbour GUI was a big need, I've was sure (and I'm still being) that a web solution for Harbour programmers is required.

The Harbour web server version of HMGSCRIPT (r35 is the last one) allows to write server procedures using plain Harbour, while GUI can be written, using a simple, intuitive library.

It is useful for me, and is a solution to create 'mixed' desktop/web applications, using NETIO server and Harbour web server simultaneously, with the same data files, in the same server machine.

I've was pretty sure, that HMGSCRIPT will receive a lot attention of HMG/Harbour communities, and that possibly, my initial work were continued by others.

"Sat Jul 21, 2012" is the date of the last post on HMGSCRIPT forum, so, obviously, I've was wrong :)

In fact, the motivation of this post is to make the following questions:

What do you think about the way that xBase programmers will relate with the web?

Are they simply resigning their language and adopting new technologies?

Are they working only on desktop applications and leaving the web to other programmers?

Can they satisfy their customers with desktop applications only (no need for Internet)?

Thanks for your answers.

Roberto.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Rathinagiri
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by Rathinagiri »

Thanks a lot for the questions Roberto.

In deed, your questions are very much valid with regard to the time factor. As of now, any application requires web presence and in specific financial applications require https support. With this background I wish to answer your questions one by one.

What do you think about the way that xBase programmers will relate with the web?

xBase programmers are xBase programmers. They believe in end results rather than ways and means. As xBase programmers, we didn't change to any other language by choice. But we had under compulsion chosen some other languages. In the case of web, IMHO HMGScript is definitely a better choice over any other language. I have used HMGScript (in PHP + MySQL flavor) in some projects.

Are they simply resigning their language and adopting new technologies?

Sometimes, we have to switch over to other languages also. But it doesn't mean that we are comfortable with that languages. xBase is like home. And HMG is like our own private room in the home. So, we can't compare our home with any other place.

Are they working only on desktop applications and leaving the web to other programmers?

May be yes. As the market is filled with Android and I-Phones, we can't fully depend on only desktop applications anymore. So, a port of Harbour GUI to Android or web applications is the need of the hour/minute/second.

Can they satisfy their customers with desktop applications only (no need for Internet)?

No way!
East or West HMG is the Best.
South or North HMG is worth.
...the possibilities are endless.
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esgici
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by esgici »

Hi Roberto

In principle you are right, your community didn't interested enough to this project.

But IMHO you aren't right to reprove theme for this unconcern; because you are the "father" of this community and all we are novice disciples.

We haven't enough comprehension the importance of HMG Script :(

But no everybody; in other group (fe Harbour news groups) I have encountered some followers of hmgscript.

This is fate of big men; at the beginning nobody ( or very few people ) was understood them.
What do you think about the way that xBase programmers will relate with the web?
They may be :
  • - never interested,
    - will look when need,
    - being ready already.
For prepare himself they have two way :
  • - forgot everything on programming and begin to search and learn new ways
    - interesting and supporting hmgscript.
Are they simply resigning their language and adopting new technologies?
Obviously this is most difficult way; especially for xBase dinosaurs like me :(
Are they working only on desktop applications and leaving the web to other programmers?
Obviously this is wrong way; especially for xBase professionals :(
Can they satisfy their customers with desktop applications only (no need for Internet)?
This may be right for now; but for very a limited time :(

As a result : the mistake of your disciples is lack of vision to tomorrow.

Fortunately you are here :D

Please continue to develop this big project;

absolutely; though not today, tomorrow too many people will thanks you.

With my best regards.
Viva INTERNATIONAL HMG :D
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bpd2000
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by bpd2000 »

esgici wrote:Hi Roberto

In principle you are right, your community didn't interested enough to this project.

Please continue to develop this big project;

absolutely; though not today, tomorrow too many people will thanks you.

With my best regards.
Please continue with HMGSCRIPT, the future is web, endroid and mobile applications only
Desktop machine will not found in near future
BPD
Convert Dream into Reality through HMG
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mol
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by mol »

Hi Roberto!
Did you notified, your every visit gives new strength to the forum?
When you're leaving us for such a long time, we have many less new ideas for work :lol:

Marek
martingz
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by martingz »

Yo estoy interesado, desgraciadamente la falta de tiempo, no me permite en estos momentos dedicarle el tiempo necesario para este proyecto.
Creo que hmgscript es la mejor solucion para el programador xbase
Gracias por todo lo que has hecho por la comunidad xbase.


Google translaction
I am interested, unfortunately lack of time, I can not right now devote time to this project.
Hmgscript I think is the best solution for the developer xbase
Thank you for everything you have done for the community xbase.
radohabjan
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by radohabjan »

Hello friends,

For those who needs application from everywhere, I use Logmein appliacation installed on server. With client application on diffrent devices and right password you can connect and work from everywhere (https). For now I use Win devices and Ios devices. In attached file is picture of my application from Ipad and also cursor movements for Ipad.
For every user I can have diffrent screen resolution ( my HMG programs are made so ), or you can change it.

So I can use some virtual win server from everywhere on the world, install my program,Logmein and work. Do we need something else ? There is also a lot of other programs for remote use, which are even better than Logmein (or will be), but for normal user is OK. Yes, you need good and fast internet connection ( which are every year better ).

If there will be also hmgscript, I will try also with them ( I tested also the last versions).
Thanks all for your support and perfet work.

br Rado
Attachments
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Leopoldo Blancas
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by Leopoldo Blancas »

Hola!!!

Haciendo una referecia mia, yo siempre he programado en escritorio xBase, desde Clipper5.2, ahora estoy conociendo HMG.

¿Qué piensa usted acerca de la forma en que los programadores xBase se relacionará con la web?

Lamentablemente por falta de tiempo no me he dedicado a programar en la web, pero si es algo que estoy empezando a ver, ya que el el futuro, que es hoy, es algo necesario.

¿Están simplemente renunciar a su lengua y la adopción de nuevas tecnologías?

A veces por no saber del tema en si, recurrimos de lo que hay en el mercado, informarnos de cual es el mejor, el más fácil, el más completo, el que con más futuro se ve... pero me imagino hacer aplicaciones web desde HMG y seria lo perfecto!!!, ya que no tendría necesidad de aprender otro idioma.

¿Están trabajando sólo en las aplicaciones de escritorio y dejando a la web para que otros programadores?

De momento es así, pero yo que me considero aprendiz de aplicaciones de escritorio me he encontrado que muchos clientes quieren que sus aplicaciones sean mediante la web. Y por eso estoy empezando a ver como programar en web.

¿Pueden satisfacer a sus clientes con aplicaciones de escritorio solamente (sin necesidad de Internet)?

No, en absoluto. Clientes que tienes dos o tres sucursales, aunque sean negocios pequeños, quieren tener una sola aplicación web, no tener la necesidad de transportar datos de cada sucursal para hacer inventarios...etc.

Por otro lado quiero agradecerle el haber creado HMG, en verdad es algo que esperaba yo hace años, cuando salio la versión Clipper5.3, esperaba que saliera la versión para windows, pero no salio y me desanime y deje Clipper y ahora que descubro HMG, volvi a las andadas.... Por eso insisto, no deje HMGScrip, soy uno más que espera se haga realidad.
GRACIAS
Polo
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Google

Hello!

Making a mine reference system, I have always programmed in xBase desktop from Clipper5.2, now I know HMG.

What do you think about how xBase programmers will interact with the web?

Unfortunately due to lack of time I've spent programming on the web, but if it's something I'm starting to see, because the future is now, is a necessity.

Are they simply give up their language and the adoption of new technologies?

Sometimes not knowing the subject itself, we turn to what is on the market, inform us what is the best, the easiest, the most complete, the most promising that looks ... but I imagine making web applications from HMG and serious perfection! because it would not need to learn another language.

Are they working only in desktop applications and web leaving for other programmers?

For now it is, but I think I apprentice desktop applications I have found that many customers want their applications are using the web. And so I'm starting to see how web programming.

Can you satisfy your customers with desktop applications only (without Internet)?

Not at all. Customers who have two or three branches, even small businesses, want a single Web application, not having the need to transport data from each branch to inventory ... etc.

Furthermore I want to thank you for having created HMG, really is something that I hoped for years, when it came out Clipper5.3 version, expected to leave the Windows version, but it came out and let me off and now I discover Clipper and HMG , went back at it again .... So again, do not let HMGScrip, I am one who hopes to become a reality.

THANKS!!!

Polo
klauskugel
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by klauskugel »

Hello Roberto,

you need some idea about HmgScript. Why not call it Hmg-Webserver
and find a somewhat better place in the blog?

To your questions.

What do you think about the way that xBase programmers will relate with the web?
Isn't it all the same about internet/intranet 67.222.129.216 / 127.0.0.1 / 192.x.x.x
The advantages of an application with Tcp/ip for Internet,Desktop Trouble-Ticket-Systems,
Knowledgebases,Notes / Messaging systems in a mixture (netio/hmgscript) is apparent to all of us.
Are they simply resigning their language and adopting new technologies?
No resigning, but adopting some new things.
Are they working only on desktop applications and leaving the web to other programmers?
I don't believe in mere desktop live and the web won't be left to others.
Can they satisfy their customers with desktop applications only (no need for Internet)?
No. There is always a Need for the internet.

But i do have to check my time table because of a heart sick mother and
another point is, that I have to learn more in the hope that my ideas are
useful. Old people (50 ) like me have sometimes not as much time as younger ones. ;)

I experimented somewhat with netio.
And used a dir.dbf with entries as 192.x.x.x, 127.0.0.1,..
for netio as defined in netiotst.prg in harbour
#define DBNAME "net:" + DBSERVER + ":" + hb_ntos( DBPORT ) + ":" + ;
DBPASSWD + ":" + DBDIR + "/" + DBFILE

so the dbfs need not reside on the same server or kept elsewhere.
Next thing could be
XSelect XAlias XShared Xrdd Xlocation Date XDescription XPriviledge
1 test .t. DBFNTX net:127.0.0.1:2941 2013/01/30 Test.dbf 00000001
2 adress .t. DBFNTX net:192.x.x.x:2947 adress.dbf 00000011
3 other .F. DBFCDX c:\other.dbf
00000001 read
00000011 readwrite

I found hmgscript and harbour httpsrv, but I need my time
to understand the whole thing.
So I just played somewhat around with it and checked
the source code and compiled httpsrv.
Basically I understand whats happening, but I have to
get stronger in using hmg and harbour.
And I don't want to spill all with questions.
And sometimes we all need a little longer in privacy and work. :(

Regards klauskugel

P.S. And don't throw hmgscript away, it is a part of you.
The need will rise.
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Roberto Lopez
HMG Founder
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Re: "Sat Jul 21, 2012"

Post by Roberto Lopez »

Thanks to all for your interesting answers.

My intention was not 'defend' to hmgscript, but find its flaws, find the reasons because it not took off.

I'll think about that...

I guess that simply, hmgscript is not easy to use enough to catch the programmers attention...

Maybe a pure Harbour server based solution do better...

I can't remember exactly the project name, but I've seen at least one that work in such way (does someone knows/remember it?)

AFAIR it works coding only one Harbour server application, with new commands/funcions/classes to handle the web GUI. The server push to the client browser the complete page (ready to use) and waits for answer.

From the xBase programmer POV, it could be more reasonable, since he/she could fully think in a desktop/console way... in other words, the web browser interface could be used as the Windows API is used in current HMG.

Regarding other solutions, like remote dektop/ terminal server, I've found the following problems:

1. The "look and feel" do not satisfy me.
2. In my country, the mobile Internet connections, are a complete disaster in many areas (it is expected that it be better in the future).
3. It requires a special server infrastructure, not always available because costs.

And...

The most important thing: I'm 50 years old too and I not consider myself as 'old'... maybe in a couple of years :)

Thanks for the feedback.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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